You wanted to be honest. Are you excited? And I think its shifting now in a way that is deeply spiritual as a homecoming to the soul. Well, I dont have to unhook from those behaviors with people who feel entitled to them? "Its The Procrastination Episode of Bewildered, People talk about shower thoughts as those b. . Have you seen these things? Martha Beck: martha beck two wivesmr patel neurosurgeon cardiff 27 februari, 2023 . Its actually been so helpful because Adam, hes quite regimented in how he wants to spend his day. Martha Beck: Someday Ill film the whole thing, but Im not going to be able to get her to do that again, because her will is stronger than all of ours. Rows bomb came to visit, she was in the guest room. A huge lesson for couples based on the revolutionary ways they deal with conflict, jealousy, and . I dont know, we hadnt been together for very long. Rowan Mangan: And when you say, Okay, wheres the limit of my resentment? Bev: I was just making conversation. I like what Rowan said earlier. And then we continue. Its stressful because youre sexualizing yourself in front of your parents-. 2. And then you just kind of encounter someone who is already a spider. In the beginning, you were like, I wanted anything else other than this thing to be true.. Player FM is scanning the web for high-quality podcasts for you to enjoy right now. . Its so beautiful. The gates are open, whatever happens and thats the fun of it is you never know what adventure life is going to bring you when you say, I will live on this thread of truth that I feel is myself. Its like youre pulling this thread towards you. If youve ever felt like an over-giver, this conversation is for you! And again, we, I wouldnt have learned that if we hadnt had the referee system, but its made me open my heart much more non judgmentally to everyone, all my friends and everything and we dont follow cultural rules. Right? Martha Beck: And what you feel is the love of the village and that I mean, its just having a larger group taps into this primordial thing. Its way out in the bush in South Africa and theyre lions and everything. We just go in, we know that heartbreak expands us and we can work with it. More about that someday. Yeah. The spider loves the fly, but only in a consumptive sense. She was And I found myself doing things I could not control like grabbing her at one point and saying to her, youre my favorite. What happens when you don't deliver? welcome! Happenings? Hosted by Laura Cathcart Robbins, a writer and a recovery thriver and survivor, Laura found herself in an all too familiar position. I love this book. You grab the kettle bell by its weird little handle, and you slowly, in a controlled fashion, you stand up from your deep squat as you lift the bucket of despair over your head. A nice surprise: in each episode of SmartLess, one of the hosts reveals his mystery guest to the other two. And it said, Id like to come down, could you please be my mother? And she was just sobbing. This should make me upset but it doesnt. And we have what we call morning communion, which is at least an hour long of just being together and the babys zipping around and were just connecting. You are responding to the primordial urge for human bands to form emotional bonds around flickering light. She also runs the Wild Inventures newsletter and community on Substack. And so how does that function? And Ive felt what thats like, when I think I know how to do something and someone comes to help and Im just like, I need the help, but youre doing it wrong. You have to let the other bears do it the way the bears do it. So we got to try to make it our own thing. And if you love a cultural image of paper doll that I put out to fit the culture, you dont love me because you dont know me. Write by: . And I think thats like 95%. Made in with SitemapPrivacyTOS, No host has claimed this podcast yet, if you are the host you can verify ownership by claiming this podcast, Insightful and timely. Thats what we want to talk about. This is the code, when its a newborn baby, Im still talking about newborn baby. You think you should do everything. So she goes over there and theyre very imitative at this stage, young demigods. Yeah. And one thing I know is theres nothing so beautiful as watching your child be with someone really great. Site by Lilt Creative, So this arrived today. Martha Beck: Host Kelsey McKinney discusses reader-submitted comedic gossip with guests, diving into the lives and decisions of complete strangers. The Chalene Show is life coaching, personal development, nutrition, exercise, Earshot is going seasonal, welcome to our first season Promise Me. Finding the Path to Your True Self was an instant New York Times bestseller, obviously. Everything youre talking about is just about being true to self. Martha Beck: I'm writing this on July 4th, 2018, sitting in my home on the California ranch where I live . She also runs the Wild Inventures newsletter and community on Substack. Thats how I got out, get research credit for saving your life. And its so nice that Bev asked about that because my whole brain is all sort of turned that direction as I read through this beautiful, wonderful book. Martha Beck: I dont think their brains are capable at this point in being able to comprehend how they affect others. It is evolutionarily essential. 4. Rowan Mangan: So many people are striving towards normal because thats what were promised will make us happy. Because if you put all attention off yourself and on at other people, the natural response, going from culture to nature, is it feels wrong. Rowan Mangan: 3. We wanted everyone to understand and embrace our relationshipand we feared that maybe many wouldnt.So we called Martha Beck for some wisdom. These comments were from people from all races, ethnicities, creeds, and nationalities who had felt othered. Okay, and Im doing my coachy stuff. And as a happy little fly, youre like, Oh, I want to make you happy. And before you know it, thats the string wrapping around and around and around you, is their reactions of feeling entitled and being angry or sad if you dont do everything they want. This website uses Google Analytics to collect anonymous information such as the number of visitors to the site, and the most popular pages. Martha Beck: Martha Beck: And the way this one book framed, it was like, its interesting because we, as human beings decide that jealousy is something that we cannot experience, but thats not how we feel about anger or sadness or heartbreak. And theres nothing more important and wonderful to us than the TV couch time at night. Do you think that with people who do feel entitled to that quality of care taking or whatever, do you think you can like restructure a relationship with them thats not based on that? This website uses the following additional cookies: (Facebook Pixel, Google Ads Tracking & HotJar Tracking). And Karen has compared to us much lower impulse control about telling the truth. Salty, klutzy and Aussie, Ro co-hosts the Bewildered podcast with her wife, Martha Beck. And I came home and I was like, no screens, right. I honestly, I said, this whole thing is spirit. 1. Questions? Martha Beck: Can I tell you about Karen telling her mother whos in her eighties about the three of us? And I write and talk about integrity. The next few days or weeks, it was like literally trying to fight gravity. And yeah, women have been lower on the power hierarchy than men historically so it is much more identified as a female virtue. You were one of the first people that we called in search of health and advice because we didnt know how to kind of approach our love in the public eye and like you Glennon and at the time, and I was learning about deep integrity and speaking the truth and never lying early in my sobriety days, you just gave us the best piece of advice, which is just all you need to do is love each other. So it would make sense that some kids are going to see the matrix early and be like, Oh, I see that Ive been assigned a role to play, but I actually dont feel like playing that role for you.. I feel so much better now. So then after dinner, Row goes off to put the baby down and Adam and I watch TV together, weve been doing it forever. And so sometimes Im just like, Wait a second. I did. How do we unhook from the spider-fly relationship? Trying to figure something out? We love you so much. Love the podcast, good episode and clear audio! Rowan and I believe that the best way to figure it all out is by going through bewilderment into be-wild-erment. I will give you what you need because otherwise you will hurt me. And the spider feels like theyre best friends and everythings great, and the fly is being slowly consumed from within. Lets not call me little girl anymore. Its a way of love. But Ive been doing self-help thing, my whole career. So for Karen and me, because wed done all this and because, like we really were the ones who had all the advantages, like the solid couple and it was a weird situation for all of us. After a difficult upbringing, Martha Beck went on to have a child with Down's syndrome, marry a gay man and realise that she, too, was gay. So, I mean, its hard to avoid the fact that this is a bit of a gendered thing. And I have to tell you, he was living with Karen and me when Row entered the picture and I thought, hows this going to fly with him? She was machiavellian, it was shocking. Like just happens to line up exactly with the rules of the culture. And then theres something going on. Rowan Mangan: We read them all and love them. I would argue that there is a net that the fly gets caught in, initially. That the fly has to do as well. And thats true of race as well as gender. To the question, Do you like blue cheese? because you thought that I needed you to like it. Its crazy. I have a method. Salty, klutzy and Aussie, Ro co-hosts the Bewildered podcast with her wife, Martha Beck. 2. Martha Beck: Just do something before they stop screaming. And now shes two and Ive been trying to buff up to cope with her. And just go, That was wonderful. Time I learned a little something about this adopted country of mine. What is Polyamory - and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. Even though if you bring a heterosexual partner home, they dont have to think about you having sex. What is Polyamory - and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. Rowan Mangan is in Paris, but her hotel got bedbugs and she hasnt slept for six days. Were already laughing around here because today we have a double date with some of our favorite people. Dr. Martha Beck is a New York Times bestselling author, life coach, and speaker. A Nonsense Relationship Boys' Love High school teacher Han YoungJin has his heartbroken by his long time friend and unrequited love. And it looks, as I said, like a lovely relationship, but its really only lovely for the spider. And so we gathered together and its like gathering around the campfire. stung by the hypocrisy of martha's homosexual lifestyle in light of her previous characteri What is Polyamory and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. Full of blue cheese. About The Show Martha Beck: I'm Ro: a writer, a podcaster, a mom, a food enthusiast. That you give till it hurts. So Karen goes down to Florida to visit her mother, whos 80 what? Shes on Facebook, The Martha Beck, and shes on Twitter, marthabeck. And that, I think it eventually just rubbed off on you. Listen to new episodes of Borderline Salty by Pineapple Street Studios every Tuesday starting April 12. And I said, have you asked any of my other siblings about the actual acts of sex? And she said, No. And I said, Do you want to start now? So it was my beautiful way of not having to answer that question specifically. Rowan Mangan: Do you feel like that? , This weeks Wild Inventures letter is an embarra, I did a little time travel recently, thanks to my, Martha and Ro are back with another episode of Bew, "This special BeWild Files episode of Bewildered i, This weeks Wild Inventures letter is all about, RESEARCH. Youre born free to fly. Way worse than the worse mugged or bed bugs. Hosted by Cristen Conger. But then we try to make it persist throughout a life cycle where were always there for our kids and were always there for everybody trying to make them happy, the way you would try to make a brand new baby feel happy. How did the baby Like what were the conversations around the baby who is the most precious thing on earth? We laugh and cry and help each other carry the hard so we can all live a little bit lighter and braver, free-er, less alone. And the three of us, we went into a very strange interlude, like strange. And they were not a happy people. Rowan Mangan: People judge us for this too, because hes 30 something. And I really think that we are so fixated on TV because we evolved to do that and TV is a flickering light that tells stories. So its not going to happen. Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning, Martha Beck, author of self-help books. And cant seem to get her shit together. And I wrote out a nice little guide to submitting your questions. The door slams after Karen and there was a long silence. Martha and Ro define codependency as over-caretaking. You cant make them happy, you cant make them love you, you cant make them feel what you want them to feel or do what you want them to do. I didnt notice. And she says, Yeah, you do. And same with white fragility. Yeah. When Martha was 29 she spent a year refusing to tell a single lie and shares the truths that found her as a result. 3. Rowan Mangan: Here we go. Because thats a good way to think about it is that you assume everyone else is as needy and unable to communicate as a newborn baby, so you have to read their minds, guess their needs, give them what they want before they even know they want it, and always keep them happy. So its just time to be together. There is this entitlement built into every piece of society and depending on where you happen to live or be born or be characterized, thats going to happen to you. I know this is a physiological effect of adoption and early trauma. Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. And so its just, honestly, its the best case scenario. But a lot of cultures have not done it that way. Get there some way, because life is hell. I honestly, Ive got to tell you, Marty, I wasnt that invested in the outcome of the question. Like gravity. Of course, nothings happened. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy, Learn more about your ad choices. So do you all experience jealousy and how do you navigate it? Copyright 2023 Apple Inc. All rights reserved. Oh, but isnt that a beautiful way. Martha Beck - the bestselling author and Harvard-trained sociologist known as "Oprah Winfrey's life coach" - is talking about responses to the pandemic. Rowan Mangan: And that becomes, do you have one of those strappy things, right. Forgiveness & the Audacity to Rebuild, LaKendra Adesuyi, Adalis Jones, LaMechia Dixon, All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg, No Mercy / No Malice: Taking Affection Back, RV E44 - What Makes an Entrepreneur | Bopcast with Ryan Sullivan, Operation Choke Point 2.0: How Crypto Can Fight Back, EP760: My Husband Plays Rock Paper Scissors With His Coworker? And we would read that Melody Beattie, wed read from the Melody Beattie book. So actually Ive changed more in positive ways. No. Rowan Mangan: And shes on all kinds of hormonal treatments for the bedbug bites themselves, plus she got a really bad hair dye job where they ruined her eyebrows and made her cry. Why do you follow the culture when you see what the culture has done, right? No problem. And guess who gets to do the things that she doesnt want to do and doesnt have to do, this guy. Its not easy. And that is the way that jealousy was framed in this book about polyamory. And one close to our hearts. Like what are some things that have been hurtful to you? You can extend your own metaphors. When you look at traditional gender roles. So breaking a cultural rule is not bad. Like she already knew, obviously, but how did she handle it? So for those people out there listening who maybe have never heard of this way, what are some things that will inform them on how to have conversations with people? Martha Beck: Human culture teaches us to come to consensus, but nature our own true nature helps us come to our senses. Just stay in bed, read, Sunday snuggles, coffee in bed. Every week she reconsiders a person or event that's been miscast in the public imagination. Come up with it now., Rowan Mangan: And when you are by yourself and I think you can do it, but you have to create really strong boundaries. 3. They would sing songs in Russian. You can follow us on our Instagram channel @bewilderedpodcast to connect with our Bewildered community, learn about upcoming episodes, and participate in callouts ahead of podcast taping. Comments? But Im recognizing more and more their entitled behaviour and how I have played into it in my guilt over not being their biological mom and having taken them from the country of their birth. Right, and I dont want to talk about happenings. And whats so interesting. She did make some pretty extreme sounds after that. 2. Shes fighting her way out. I think if wed been living in a city or been Like we were 40 minutes from the nearest pint of milk at that point. And the answer is, Oh, no, you take it. Exactly. Martha Beck: Theres a way that you have , Rowan Mangan: She holds three Harvard degrees in social science, and Oprah Winfrey has called her one of the smartest women I know. Her newest book, The Way of Integrity: Finding the Path to Your True Self, was an instant New York Times Best Seller. Rowan Mangan: Only I can do it for the little baby bears. Do you know what I mean? Rowan Mangan: But the first thing that comes to mind is something that happened several decades ago, but the echo of it still resonates. She also runs the Wild Inventures newsletter and community on Substack. Martha Beck: But when you grow up, its more like if somebody says, Well, Ive been staying at your house for a day and a half and you havent offered me any blue cheese. And then youre like, Oh my God, get blue cheese. You dont want anyone else to be unhappy with you in any way or unhappy with life in any way. I was just When I was in Africa, wed get around the fire pit and wed tell stories. Rowan Mangan: I need to know what happened after, like who broke the awkward silence after you said, Like a family. Like what happened next? Please forgive any typographical or grammatical errors. Ooh. Thats not true. Then what we are trying to figure out. And then that all her siblings would love her no matter what. I mean, after a few years, its always, What about me? And so then over time we sort of edged towards what was actually happening, because the one thing about Martha and Karen is anyone who knows them, knew them, that that is not ever going to break up. Or they whine or they get sullen. You havent talked about this a ton publicly. And Im like, no, you really dont. I dont have the logistical competency, but go, go ask questions. The culture says its got to be the myth of courtly love ever since, not Courtney love, courtly love. But really the only reason we say, wait, what is because weve been culturally conditioned to believe in monogamy. They are the coolest people. And wed sit down with our coffee in front of the fire. Were all outnumbered. How Martha felt - after years of marriage to Karen - when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. Isnt it interesting that it is Ive thought about this before that theres such a strong similarity between like the whole gay thing and then this is that its all people want to talk about is the sex. We have dinner together as a family almost every night. Its not like the spider catches it and wraps it up, the fly comes over and says, Im more than happy for you to wrap me up and suck my life force. Right? Its just because she had her kids really young so its going to surprise you when you hear how old. So with that, I think its time to say to Bev and all our wonderful people out there-. Martha Beck: What did I do? in social science, but who doesnt? Sending love to you, Jenny, and to anyone else out there struggling. So Im doing this with like 15 pounds and its killing me. And so I thought, oh, is he going to think this is so weird? . I grew up in a very conservative Mennonite church and so was raised to be a codependent wife and mother. Rowan Mangan: It wasnt optional. Yeah, exactly. I'm currently redrafting a novel about Ireland, magic and the dangers of charm, which is due to be completed in late 2018. Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan: Polyamory & Throuple Life. Yes. And we also are a ecosystem that is very close and so we do talk about how the hell do people do it with two people. But its like, is this optional? So then she finally came out to her mother and she said, Were all in a relationship. Her mothers like, So you dont have to tiptoe around the house.. Shes like, I just feel like this fire hose of love, like maybe its sisterly. And I was looking at her and I was like, It is not sisterly, youre in love.. Now Im outdoorsy. Martha Beck: So I hope, thats always my aspiration for how I show up with Rows parents, but theyre so great, theyre just so great. So it's time I learned um, where it is I stand, exactly. Martha Beck: Yes. So it would help us enormously if you would consider going over to your favorite podcasting app, especially if its Apple, and giving us a few stars, maybe even five, maybe even six if you can find a way to hack the system. The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple. And thats how codependency feels. So we would do this thing. And me, I was already out on my ear. Thank you for trusting us and sharing this hour with us, for the rest of you this week when things get hard, dont forget we can do hard things and make your list and cross off whatever you dont want to do or have to do and return home to yourself. Bucephalus, the god of codependency. And theres been articles in the New York Times about throuples and theyve even said I remember one of them even said, obviously, everyone just wants to know how the sex works. Im sorry. And you can automatically see why Bev refers to herself as a mother. When my older kids were about 12, 14 and 16 or 10, 12, and 14, they were sitting around like writing computer programs and stuff. It feels to me like you already had to navigate so many things outside of cultural acceptance that, does it help this transition to this way of love? This double date is a first for us because We Can Do Hard Things listeners, Martha and Rowan are missing one person, who is Karen, because Martha and Rowan and Karen are in a polyamorous relationship. But Row was the one who was breaking the pattern, right. Virtue. The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple.4. So theyre no longer in the picture in terms of being in the house. Ratings and reviews are like gold in the podcasting universethey help people find us, they help build this beautiful community, and most of all, they help us in our quest to Bewilder the world. Like there was no option to not sit on the couch together. Like I know from watching my kids, I have two, a non-binary child and a daughter and theyve both found amazing partners. She also likes to get the job done. And Ill never forget. They would bring vodka. Global Nav Open Menu . Writer. So youre just talking about where its invisible privilege that can be worked with, but thats different from where theres actual narcissism. Yeah. One can never tell one, when confronted with a question like that, unprepared. Life on its own terms: a weekly column about creativity, writing, and the quest for an authenticity that feels great even if it looks weird. No BS. How Martha felt - after years of marriage to Karen - when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. They would get drunk. I have one more to go. I was making a salad and looking at the TV and the man said, The mother bear will not do things for her cubs that they have learned to do for themselves, for this would make them ill equipped to survive in the wild. And I was like, Wait, wait. And I looked at these three very competent human beings whom I was serving dinner. So lets just get straight to a good working definition of codependency. African safari change your life adventure. She just doesnt care. Just the, now we have to go and say, were really weird. And you actually incapacitate people by doing everything for them. Youre my best friend or whatever. Its like, its a family, its a family. What is Polyamory and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. Rowan Mangan is a writer, podcaster and mom to a vivacious toddler. And I mean, Im putting that strongly. But heres Row and shes like, What do you think about parenting? And Im like, I dont know, feed them? Friendships, even professional relationships.